Category: Let's talk
ok consider this a couple lying in bed. He wants sex, but she is exhausted and needing to asleep, he makes demands which become ever more persistant, when she has said no before almost falling asleep, and he goes ahead and has penetrative sex is that rape...
I guess it could be, did he wake her up? grin.
I used to have a girl friend that said If I wanted it and she was asleep I could do her anyway!
I would call that rape to be honest, because she said no. I guess for him it's too bad things would have to be like that, where he's in the mood but she doesn't want it. But he should respect that, especially when she's tired.
Leilani
No she was awake but exhausted... well obviously your former beloved had no self respect eh pal...maybe that was your only way of getting any hmmm?
Tinkerbell that was the problem a complete lack of respect and when he wanted sex he had to have it...
no means no! end of.
Hmm, in that above scenario the guy could have done something about his physical arousal himself, don't see why the girl would have a problem with that. I think a good girl friend would even help him out in that department unless she was too exhausted. Sex is an emotional thing and it takes two to make it complete and special, else it hasno meaning and there is no excuse or desire that can justify forcing your partner to do it. That being said I can't put that in the same category as forcing a girl who is not dating you on the ground and forcing sex on her, even if perhaps she is a child, both may be called rape but I think there's a huge difference. In the dating scenario you are disrespecting your lover and most likely it will result in a break up but I don't thik she willhave life long scars from it, but in the latter it is one of the most disturbing crimes one can ever commit and should be penalized harshly.
cheers
-B
I think just the fact that she didn't want it and it was still done to her makes it rape. She may or may not have any emotional scars from it, but it was still without her consent.
Leilani
Your absolutely right Tinkerbell and this is not the 1st time he has gone ahead without consent...
actualy golem! that was her idea not mine! lol. Golim I think that fits you a lot more than goblin!
I think b is absolutely right in that there is a distinct difference. I still stand by the notion that no means no, and as Tinkerbelle has said as it was done to her without her consent it should be considered as rape. I think that if both partners respect each other, then the guy would not go ahead without his girlfriend’s consent. I think however, that if a guy goes out with a girl, they go back to his/her place, get very close, end up naked in bed together, and she then says no at the last minute, if he goes ahead and has sex with her anyway, it is still wrong, and he still shouldn’t do it, but I do think that there is provocation in that event, and that kind of rape should be treated differently to when a guy forces himself on a girl in an alley or some such place. Neither act is right, but I think that in the first scenario the girl does have some answering to do.
Isn't sex between a couple a private matter that should remain between the couple? I mean if she doesn't like the way her boyfriend is demanding and getting sex she should leave him! She must like it or agree to it if she is still there... And 'no' doesn't always mean no if it's between 2 people who have a relationship. There have been times I said no to my bf and he kept on and turned me on and we had sex. Star
Whats up Dawson are you needing a drink eh why dont you crawl back inside that bottle, that's a boy, you'll feel much better...
grin, I could use one. but I think I'll pass today! nobby nob golem! such a cute little gobby! yes you are!
It's actually funny to see how Goblin opens a topic and then keeps insulting the people who replied in a manner that Goblin didn't like. LOL Star
<grin> oh funny yeah, but surprising, no, after all he is working on the ultimate goal of putting everyone on ignore.
now just you wait a minute goblin - and yes I know you have me on ignore but know you're reading this anyway, that was way out of line and you know it. if someone made reference to your apparent mental illness and your inability to keep up your meds you'd be on top of them quicker than you can say "goblin is a nutter". So why don't you keep it shut for once, i know that's somewhat of a tall order, maybe that's why your girlfriend says no to you ey? and do you have to seak approval from the internet that what you're potentially doing to her is right?
lets all agree 100% of the time, what a fun world that would be eh?
oh yeh, goblin's opinion is the only one.
Sugarbaby you are very mistaken! Goblin doesn't have sex with sleeping girls who told him 'no' he has sex with DEAD ones and who are also preferably already in a coffin!!! That is the ONLY way he can get sex without someone telling him 'NO' ROFL Star
Well, Goblin I am sad to still see my name on your ignore list but found this topic really interesting, so I felt the urge to reply!!! I confess that my ex. was like that. I was tired beyond belief and he still wanted sex from me. I was 16 at the time and didn't see it as rape at all. But reading this and thinking back on it, I don't necessarily look at it as rape but as not respecting the woman's wishes. I don't know what you would call it exactly. *smiles* But what Dawson is talking about is the fact that she had told him that if she was tired, he could still go ahead. I think that is different from what I experienced. I'm just glad that my fiance respects me in this matter!!!
*sexy*
How can you see someone else's ignore list? I didn't know it was possible. Am I also on Goblin's ignore list. I bet I am... I am ... I am LOL Star
no star if you go to "my account, then to "change my account settings" and "change my ignore settings" there is a list at the bottom which shows everyone who is ignoring you.
Awwww Goblin is ignoring me too! I feel special LOL Star
i am with claire on this one, no means no! if a woman were ever to say no to me then that would be that! if a girl says no and you carry on anyway then that is rape! i don't even really know why we are debating the point! that's the law. no equals rape!
as to the other argument that seems to have arisen, once again, started by goblin! but i wager any money you like that in his mind it was dawson that started it! lol.
Yes. I would say this is rape. Having sex without her agreeing to it? That is rape, definitely.
Well, for the record, I'm not justifying this in any way and if I ever did this to a girl (I can't imagine that I would) I hope she would break up with me. But is that cause for putting me to jail for 20 years, I have to say if e.g. me and her had slept together for months or years I can't agree with it being that terribly wrong. By doing that I would have disrespected her feelings and her body and she would deserve better but I can't say I felt deserving of a prison sentence. I think forcing someone you hardly know or forcing anyone under the threat of violence to have sex with you is a more serious offense and certainly worthy of being locked up. Both are wrong but I cannot say in my mind that these two offenses are equally serious.
cheers
-B
At last someone who can talk some sense around here despite the screaming toddlers thankyou Insele
Well that is true to a degree, but one might question the circumstances, if she said no and he did it anyway, did she put up a fight? And if so that would effectively amount to violence, and therefore is rape, maybe not punishable by a 20 year jail sentence, but certainly I would end the relationship if a guy did that to me. However, if he had sex with her anyway and she let him, then perhaps this would not be considered so much as rape, because she did give in, albeit she didn’t really want to. Doesn’t mean no means yes, but sometimes a girl will have sex with a guy just to shut him up.
B i get the feeling that this is just something i can't agree with you on! having sex with somebody against there will, regardless of how well you know them, is simply wrong in my view!
as far as i am concerned circumstance doesn't come into it! if you rape somebody you rape somebody and that is completely wrong!
if your talking about a woman saying know and you try and change her mind and succeed in doing so then fare enough! but if she says no and you were to carry on anyway, then that is rape, and you'd deserve anything that came to you there after!
hmm, harp, well I agree that is' not a forgivable crime so we agree on most things there, and if I ever did that I would hope for someone to shoot me. AFter all a guy (well most guys) has a right hand for emergency purposes if nothing else.
and so say all of us! lol
Well I agree it is totally and utterly out of order but one might question why a girl would stay with a guy who did that. As far as I am concerned my body is sacred, and if I say no then that means no, no question, sure the guy might try persuasion tactics but if I didn’t want it then it would be no and that would be an end to it! Now if a guy then persisted to have sex with me he would sincerely regret ever doing so, and as far as I’m concerned that would violate any trust and respect that existed in the relationship, I would leave, no question. So why would a girl stay, and not only stay, but confide in her friends that this was what happened in her relationship? No self respecting woman would stand for that.
I rest my case as you 4 have demonstrated it nicely
hehehe goblin actually you've just made yourself look like a complete prat by assuming that the last 4 posts were about you. now if only you read the posts ...
hmm see what I mean
nope actually I think they all see what I mean *grins*. the discussion had actually come back on track before you started making assumptions, so goblin, actually you are the one made to look like a complete idiot, not the rest of us.
hmm hmmm
goblin if you'd take us off of ignore you'd see that actually we were exchanging views on the topic currently being discussed! hand on heart i can say that, not only did i not mention you in those posts, but you never even entered my thoughts! god! how many more times do i have to say it! this ignore feature is rediculous!
That is true this time, I read them Goblin and they were about the topic.
*yawn,* one day, the childish bickering and nit picking will stop... Maybe not in my lifetime though... Back to the topick though... Rape is defined in the law, as penitration of the vagina, anus or mouth by a man's penis where no consent has been given. Sexual asult is defined as penitration of the vagina, anus, or mouth by something other than the penis where no consent has been given, i.e. by a man or woman, or in some cases, even a child. What you are talking about is indeed rape. It doesnt' matter if you have been sleeping with someone for twenty-five years. No, is no and I'm sure that there is some reason for the answer being no. Even if there isn't, who ever said that someone needed a reason not to go ahead with sex? As far as what sb was saying about self-respect? I see what you are saying, but some people, for whatever reason aren't that strong. People can be very manipulative. My X, for example, actually, somehow, made me practically totally dependant upon him at one point. I can hear you all screaming how stupid that is at your computers now, but it's like many things in the sense that you can't judge that unless you are in the situation. I never thought I'd ever let anything like that happen to me, but sometimes they do. Sometimes the "it won't happen to me" line doesn't work.
That will be the feckin day...And we are all aware of the facts about rape we do not need a patronising lecture thankyou...
Well, although it might seem like common sense to know the difference between rape and sexual assault, I thought it was still informative and didn't sound at all patronizing. But anyway... I agree with sugar.
Leilani
Well the word lecture springs to mind and a very angry lecture at that.
Gobhole, what the hell is your problem? You ask a question that you dont' want an answer too? You say, is this rape, I say yes. What's the issue here. You wine on about how people are out of order to you and bitch about you needlessly, but it's ok for you to do it to me? It's interesting how noone else is allowed to hear any possible meaning behind your words yet you're so quick to annalise everyone else... It's called factual content. And the issue is? Take a fucking look in the mirror pal... I promised myself that I wouldnt' even bother answering your pathetic crap anymore, but I'm sick of the fact that you always think you're right an everyone else is wrong. If you don't want answers, maybe sb and co are right. Maybe you should have a topick of your own. At least then you'd hear what you want to hear. And the joke being? I'll be the one to get petty insults back now... I'm waiting for it already and I havent' even pressed post yet. You don't even ever have anything factual to say apart from malicious crap. Going on about Dawson's drinking? Calling everyone you dont' see fit to live in your society low life skum? Didn't you ever consider that it's in fact, you the one with the problem? More to the point, I am wondering why the fuck I'm wasting my time. An yeh, that was a retorical question
and that's sugar onto the ignore list! *grin*
yay, sugar on to the ignore list, yet he'll still answer. It's people like him that just don't even need an ignore list. They need an allow list.
Hmm vaguely amusing
the last word shall be mine!
mine
lol
no! mine!
Sugar lets get 1 thing straight I mentioned DAWSON'S drinking ONCE so your accusation is nothing more than an inaccurate exaggeration...and I wonder would you be so quick to admit your own faults as you have been to analyse mine...I very much doubt it your talent for losing the heid, has been demonstrated adquately, more than once and while in the middle of a tirade you lose track of the truth...to accuse someone you must be in posession of all the facts, not only those that suit you...
lol. Yeh gobhole, I'm more than willing to admit my faults. I wouldnt' give others, like you, the satisfaction of beating me to it. And, hmm, inaccurate, so there's Dawson's drinking, Claire being a dreadful parent and you thinking that her husband was lucky to get away when he did, I could carry on all day, but A, I wouldn't dream of wasting bandwidth, and B, it's lost on you anyway. So yeh. Who's got the problem again?
Wow, gobhole! I like that, guess that kind of goes with cakehole, as in “shut your cakehole” and asshole (well no explanations required there), either way all suit very well! But you see sugar, it’s much easier to insult other people, if you put others down then you don’t have to face up to your own inadequacies, after all let’s not forget that goblin has made up his life on here to hide away from the fact he is nothing but a lowly civil servant with no life and nobody. Bit sad that he had to invent a disability as well, but … well whatever gets you the sympathy vote I guess. *grins*
There are games where "no" can mean "later", and it's really about communication. Perhaps the two of you agree upon a certain tone of voice or whatever? Personally, I think no means no, until the person says yes. On the other hand, if someone says "Stop doing that." with a huge grin on their face and a teasing tone, that's not "No".
I agree that it is partially about communication. I do say "stop" or "no", but my voice is definitely in the "yes" range. However, if it's a firm "no" and the person goes ahead then it is rape. No matter his desire, and/or, the reason that no is being said, it is rape. I would have to disagree with no emotional scars though. It doesn't matter who or how long you've known them, a penatration like that is scarring. It makes you wonder who you can trust...Makes you not want to trust or get close to anyone again. In some ways maybe even worse then a stranger. Though you didn't know the stranger, and you can't know who they were or what you might have gotten, you can protect yourself better from strangers. The only way to protect yourself from that blatant disregard for trust is to lock yourself away...As for why women stay? Maybe it's because they feel they can find no better, or, they love them and hope it will never happen again, or, aren't financially stable...The list goes on and on.
If she was asleep yes i think that's rape.